Welcome to Season 14 of the Troubleshooting Innovation podcast. Trina Bediako, CEO of New Horizons Baking Co., shares how she balances generational wisdom and youthful disruption to expand a family bakery business in unconventional ways. Sponsored by Coperion.
In Episode 2, Trina talks about the importance of transferring knowledge from generation to generation and shares lessons she’s learned on her path to leadership.
Learn more about this season here, and tune into Troubleshooting Innovation on Apple or Spotify.
Joanie Spencer: Hi Trina, welcome back for week two.
Trina Bediako: Hi Joanie, how are you today?
Spencer: I have a 15-year-old son, and he sometimes tells me that I interrogate him. So I hope that you don’t feel interrogated.
Bediako: Not yet! I’m good.
Spencer: Okay, all right, so before we get started, I think we’ve got to do just a slight correction. From last week, we were talking about the history of how New Horizons came together and your dad’s relationship with John Paterakis Sr. and Peter Grimm. Let’s walk through that again just to make sure that we’ve got our history correct.
Bediako: Thank you for that. I do have a slight correction. My father was the manager at Wonder Bread in the Paterson, New Jersey, plant, and they were just beginning to make rye bread. So he purchased rye bread from Mr. John Paterakis Sr. at H&S Bakery. So the relationship was, my father was the customer at Continental, and that’s how it began. But the relationship grew from that, and the rest is history, as they say.
Spencer: Absolutely and I know one thing you were absolutely spot on about was the relationship between them, and it was such a strong and solid relationship. But your father was the customer of John Paterakis Sr.
Bediako: Yes.
Spencer: Okay, great. Well, let’s keep going with this next episode. So we kind of talked about your background and how you got to where you are, just on your sort of life journey as a generational baker. This week, I want to talk about what you learned and what was passed on to you — from your dad to you — and how you kind of see that being passed on to your kids. So last week, we kind of ended reflecting on the lessons that you learned growing up in the industry. So I just want to revisit that real quick, and then take it a little step further.
What are some of the qualities that you saw in your dad? We talked about it, you know, some, but I want to get more granular and specific. Like, what are the qualities that you saw in him that shaped you when you came into the business? So his work ethic, his business intelligence, operational standards? Because he really touched every aspect of a bakery business. So what are the specifics that shaped you?
Bediako: I think the first thing is you have to be true to your word. If you say you’re going to do something, you need to do it. When he came in the office every day, he walked through the halls and says good morning to everybody. So I try to do that. You want to be a person of integrity that people can respect. And when they say your name — Tim Brown, Trina, Bediako — you want them to say something positive about it. Now, that doesn’t mean everybody likes you and you get along with everybody, but they can at least say, you know, ‘Maybe I don’t like her, but she handles business well.’ And that’s what you want. You want to take care of the people that are entrusting you. And that requires time and a lot of dedication.
Again, my parents were married for 50 years, but my dad worked very hard, and my mom had to have some level of understanding to allow him to do the things that he needed to do. I’m fortunate. I have a husband who is probably a saint, because he puts up with me and my family in the business, but he’s an amazing, he provides an amazing support. So, you know, my dad taught me, you know, if I had to sum it up, you have to be true to your word, you have to give honor to your name, and you have to do your best each and every day. And when you need help, you ask for it, and you don’t give up. You keep pushing. You keep trying, and you live a life of integrity, so that you can look yourself in the mirror and feel good about it. And people can look at you regardless of how they feel about you and recognize that you bring value.
Spencer: You know, I think that’s really hard. It’s and I gotta laugh because I hear you say a lot of this boils down to integrity. And when you’re a person in business, like you said, ‘You may not like me, and you don’t have to like me, but you should be able to trust me that I’m making the right business decision.’ And so I just have to laugh, because you and your child are like, two of the most likable people I’ve ever met. And so I don’t know if it’s just, you know, like I said, it boils down to integrity. So like, having that integrity and that confidence, maybe, is part of what makes you guys so likable, and just being people of high values and living by your values makes you likable. But I love that that’s not a requirement for you.
Bediako: We have our faith, and I firmly believe that I can do all things through God that gives me strength. That’s how I live, even though it’s hard sometimes.
Spencer: There is truth in that. Absolutely, I believe that as well. So okay, your dad. I interviewed him in 2021. I did an executive profile on him when he was about to be inducted into the bakery Hall of Fame, and he was telling me that leadership in a family business is earned, regardless of your name. We talked about that a little bit last week, so I know that those values translated to you.
He told me the story of how you challenged him to give you a shot at leadership. Do you recall that moment? Because I heard his side, his version, but I would love to see it through your eyes.
Bediako: Sure we reached a point where I think we were at a bit of a crossroads. I told you that he’d hired someone in front of me, before me, to be president. You know, I didn’t love that, but I tried to work with this gentleman for a couple of years — and I did — and I just reached a point where I felt like there was just nowhere else for me to go. I said, ‘I’ll never be CEO. This man has, you know, this amazing skill set that my father is impressed by and, you know, I can’t compete.’ And I’m sure there was a handful of sour grapes in there too, but I, in all honesty, I reached the point where I was going to leave the company. Not out of anger, but I just couldn’t go on with it.
And an event occurred that my father — that this man and my father separated ways — very close to the time that I was going to leave. I had given my notice. My employees knew I was leaving. My father knew I was leaving, although I’m not sure that he thought I was. And he said, you know, ‘Trina, I I’d like to make you president of the company.’ And I said, ‘Well, yeah, I’d like to, I’d like that, dad. You know, I’ve wanted that for years.’ I said, ‘But I again, I can’t be a figurehead. You’re going to have to let me make the decisions. I don’t want the title, and then you’re running the business.’ Nope. ‘You want a chance? I’m going to give you a chance.’ And I said okay. He gave me a chance. And that was in December of 2017.
At the end of the day, one thing that that’s very strong about my dad is he’s a numbers man. He’s very good with math. My math, I’m not that strong in the brain. I need a calculator. I understand financial statements. I know right from wrong. I can take a guess when someone’s trying to schmooze me. But, I mean, he’s just like sharp as a whip, you know, in that regard. And so he agreed to really allow me — to step back — and let me do the job. And one of the first opportunities, when it was time for me to get a bonus, I thought it was a little low, because I knew what the other guy got. So I’m like ‘Dad, you know, are you just offering this to me because, you know, maybe we’re having some rough times right now, or some challenges?’ And he was really surprised that I brought that to the table, but it’s just important for me to be measured on what I do, what I do. He’s my father. I’m his daughter. He wants to protect, and he wants me to succeed at the same time. So there’s a lot to juggle.
But I say my comment about him being so good at math. At the end of the day, the way for me to prove to him that I knew what the heck I was doing was in the numbers, which you can’t deny, there has been growth. There’s been some great growth. We’ve done projects under my leadership that we haven’t done under his, like acquisitions. We’ve rebuilt our culture in the post-COVID world — things that he absolutely respects and has been very supportive and encouraging in. I just had to show him what I could do, and all he did was open the door and say, ‘Okay, go ahead. and if you need me, Trina, I’m there.’ and I reach out when I need to reach out.
Our relationship has grown in a different way. But every now and then, I just want him to be my dad, and I don’t want to talk about, you know, EBITDA. And I have to do the same with mine! I have two children that work in the company. And so we have some rules. You don’t talk about the business at dinner table, because it’ll kill an appetite, right? Don’t talk about the office while you’re eating. When we approach each other, it’s like, you know, ‘Mom, such and such happened today. Do you have the mind space for it?’ ‘Okay, let me hear it.’ And then when I’ve had enough, I say that’s enough. I can’t solve every problem. My prayer each day is that the Lord will reveal to me the things I need to know. And every now and then, I get a little, you know, my spidey sense says, ‘Trina, check on that employee over there. Trina, did you look at that report the right way?’ Those kind of things. And that’s how I go at it. I have to trust the people that lead this business. I have to trust the people that I’ve given positions to. I have to trust the people that have the skill set in their respective areas to be the experts. I’m a logical thinker. I can challenge any thought, and we can come to an understanding about where we need to be. And that’s how I operate. That’s how I operate.
Spencer: You know, my heart goes out to generational business people because you have, like, twice as much to prove. It’s really hard to overcome an assumption that you’re only there because of your name, and so you have to work really hard to overcome that and prove yourself, and then at the same time, turn around and have the tenderness of a family relationship, regardless of what happened. And so it’s just like around every corner, there’s just a brick wall, and you got to figure out how to break through it. It’s not easy. And people always just assume it’s easy because you have that name and that you’ve inherited it, but that’s not always the case.
Bediako: Yeah. tTanks. I appreciate you noting that. I mean, it is true. And like I said, I have challenges. We all have challenges. So me walking around, ‘Oh, I’m a black lady. People aren’t nice.’ Where’s that going to get me? Nowhere. That is not how, that’s not how I’m living. Okay? But there is a balance. There is a balance.
Again, I’m a CEO, I’m a businesswoman, but I have a husband, and I have children, and I have siblings, you know that work for the company. And so, I have to give consideration to all of that, and sometimes — all the time — we recently had a family meeting with the grandchildren. So I have two siblings, and there are seven grandchildren of my parents. And we had a family meeting recently just to explain to them about the growth of the business, where it’s been and where it’s going. And I had a slide about expectations. You don’t have to work for the company, but if you do, this is what’s expected. And my first slide was a picture of of me with a tear. I’m like, ‘You may not like on Trina. Because from eight to five, I’m not mom, wife, mother, sister, girlfriend. I’m the CEO of a company. It’s more than just the seven of you. It’s 700 plus, and I gotta be careful about the decisions I make, and I’ve gotta consider everybody. So yeah, I love you, and I want you to do well, and I’ll provide all sorts of opportunities. But you’re gonna have to work. You can’t be a slouch here, and you gotta be able to accept that.’
Spencer: Is there any sort of like secret society in our industry that is thought sharing among multiple generational family bakeries? I feel like you guys could all learn so much from each other. And so if there is not some secret summit of legacy family bakeries, can I organize it and be the facilitator?
Bediako: I think you should. There is so much we can learn from each other. And no, it does not exist. And every now and then, something particular is going on, there’s one or two female bakers that I can call and talk to. But no. Again, we’re all probably going through the same things generationally in the family business perspective. We should talk more. The industry has become a bit competitive, so we’re probably also protective that we’re not sharing as much as we can. But we should. We should in the right. in the right arena.
Spencer: Yeah, I’m going to figure out how to make that happen. I’m going to meet in like, some remote Castle somewhere.
Bediako: A spa in Arizona! I’ll talk all day.
Spencer: I love it. I love it. I’m there. I I’m not part of a family bakery, but I’m going to figure out how to how to be the mediator, the facilitator.
Spencer: Okay, so your dad, I remember when he told me this story, and and he finished the story by just praising you and how well you did. And he said, ‘She actually saw a lot of things that I missed.’
I’ve talked to a lot of family, generational family bakeries, and I’ve, I’ve heard that from people you know, that the next generation sees things that the first generation or the generation before them couldn’t see.
How do you make those improvements? Like, is that hard? Just like what you said, like, huge dad at the end of the day. So it seems like, again, a challenge that is really unique to a family bakery. How do you make improvements on something that was developed by a person whose authority you spent your life respecting? That seems like a double-edged sword.
Bediako: I think it starts with the first generation and the mindset of that person allowing the second gen to have a place, to have a position.
So, I understood over time that it wasn’t that my dad never wanted me to lead. He had to have some confidence that I was ready and I could handle the challenges. So he spent a lot of years watching, and I had to prove where I was at. There came a time when he was ready to give me an opportunity, and because he allowed it, then, because there’s mutual respect, I can present the change in a way that he can receive it.
I don’t think I’ve torn down anything that he’s built. I’ve tried very hard to build upon it because he created an incredible foundation. It’s just that the world has changed. The candidates for jobs are different. The generations have a variance in them that they just all — we’re all — trying to understand. But if he wasn’t willing to give me a chance, if he wasn’t open minded enough to accept the difference, I couldn’t do any of it. But then, it’s solidified by the numbers.
Spencer: I love that you come back to the numbers. And I also have to say, like I’m with you. I need a calculator. And my husband and my son just know math and numbers by intuition. And to me, that’s like, some kind of magic. Like, how do they do that? That’s a superpower.
Bediako: I can get there, but it’s, it takes time.
Spencer: Same. Same. Like, I can get there, but I can’t focus on anything else, and it’s going to take a lot of time. And I need technology.
Bediako: And I gotta tell you, that is another lesson learned by my father. You must know your numbers. Businesses have been destroyed because the leaders didn’t understand the numbers and were taken advantage of. So I work at that all the time. And I try to have people around me that are sharp, but for me to be the right leader, I gotta be able to challenge them too.
So I add to that, another component is the personal development. Being honest to say, ‘I’m good at this, I’m great at this. I’m not so good here, and I need to do something to get better.’ You gotta be honest with yourself about where you stand, where your strengths and weaknesses are, and do what you can to improve if it’s an area that requires improvement.
Spencer: And it’s not just about, ‘Okay, well, this is my weakness, so I need to make sure that I build a team that is better than me at this.’ Like you said, you have to put in the effort to improve yourself. Otherwise, that could be a place where you get taken advantage of, right?
Bediako: That’s right, that’s right, that’s right. You’ve got to have people that are strong in their skill set, that know what they’re talking about, what they’re doing, so that they can protect you. And you can continue what your family’s built.
Spencer: Yeah. Okay, so then that kind of leads me to the kind of the other, the second part of a two-part question, and that is, like, how do you forge a new future while respecting the history that created the success? So there’s everything that got you to this point. How do you take it into the future without letting go of what got you there?
Bediako: Sure, sure. I think it’s in the stories you tell and the way that you handle yourself. So for example, right now, my father just celebrated his 80th birthday a few weeks ago, and one of the gifts that we gave him was the services of a ghost writer to write his memoirs, his life story. When we thought about that as a gift, my thoughts were he has such an amazing story to tell. And my grandson, who’s eight years old, knows him. We call him Papa T. He knows Papa T, but when my grandson is a grown man, it’s likely that Papa T won’t be here. So we wanted to have something documented that we can share generationally, beyond my siblings and I and even our grandchildren, so they’ll know about our family and the journey and all that my father and mother put in to begin this.
So, you just have to keep telling the stories. I know, as I can tell you, my father built an amazing foundation. I’m just making adjustments to the world we live in today and to allow it to continue. And I want to have an open mind when my children, or my staff, come to me with new ideas and differences. And like I said, one of the things I’ve learned is you gotta listen. Listen to hear. You have to hear what people are saying, not think about how you’re going to respond. Listen to hear.
Spencer: There is definitely a difference between listening and hearing. Absolutely. Okay. So your dad, when I talked to him in 2021, he shared his insight on what it takes to successfully pass a family business onto the next generation, and he said that it’s all about shared passion. So in your opinion, is that something that can be taught? You guys have a huge family, and so is there anyone in your family, or even just like generationally in general, like an up-and-comer in the business that has skills but doesn’t have the passion? Can you teach that?
Bediako: I don’t think you can teach passion. I think you can expose individuals to the resources that are there and observe what they do with it.
As I’ve said, I don’t expect everyone in the family to work for the business, but if they come on board, they’re expected to give their best. And all the resources are there for them to have success, but they’ve got to want it. They’ve gotta want it enough to give it the extra. They’ve gotta want it enough to ask the questions and inquire. They’ve gotta want it more than they want an inheritance that’ll come if you do nothing. How about that? Never do anything. You gotta get an inheritance. Alright? So what if you did a little something? What if you made a change? What do you want your life to be? I don’t believe passion can be taught. I just think there are elements that you can expose an individual to that may light a fire. But then once that fire is lit, they’ve got to keep it flaming.
Spencer: I think that, for the family business aspect, that’s a great filter. Who is willing to take it to a new level and not just an inheritance. Like you’ll get something if you do nothing, but what can you grow if you care and nurture? So that’s a really great way to sort of identify who you are going to look at to bring up in the company.
But also, I think it’s just — talking about when you can’t teach passion, you can only give the resources — that’s a good way for leaders of non-family businesses to be able to filter who they want to bring up in their company for leadership. And it’s really good for me, because I as a mom of a teenager who thinks he knows way more than me, who is frighteningly intelligent, but it helps me sort of know where to guide him and not to push him into something just because he knows about it, or he’s smart with it. But if he’s not passionate about it, you know … I want him to go to law school, but if his passion is not there, then I need to remember that’s not the path I need to push him toward. So thanks for the good advice!
Bediako: And I tell you what, that’s not always easy, because then you have to — so if you have a family business and you don’t have children or relatives that want to continue — then you gotta start thinking about something else. What’s next? You know, what do we do with this? Where do we go with it? How does it end? Or who can take on after me?
I remember again, my dad just turned 80, and I said a few years ago, ‘I’m not going to work that long.’ But I gotta tell you what, we’re having a good time. We’re doing good things. We’re making a mark. It’s still fun, and it’s exciting. And again, I’m not a baker, but I’ve been in on 23 years. We’ve been making change, and I, I don’t know when I’m gonna stop. I guess when I’m no longer bringing value. But right now, I think I’m pretty valuable. I’m gonna hang in there a little longer.
Spencer: Now that your kids are are in the business, and you’re thinking about that, who — and how — does the future look like? How would you weigh the importance? So on one hand, you have willingness to pass on knowledge, and in the other hand, you have a willingness to receive it. And that’s the other thing that your dad really talked about. What’s the balance there? What does that look like from your vantage point?
Bediako: Well, again, ‘To whom much is given, much is required,’ right? So I feel like I have an obligation to my children and my nieces and nephews to share all that I can, and I’m trying to be far more conscious of that these days. Again, we have our family meetings now more regularly, sharing information about the business and the details of the growth. But I’m also going to take full advantage of my father, who has an incredible mind and incredible history and so much to share.
And you know, there may have been days in the past where I just tried to do it myself and then waited to see how it went. But now, if I’m unsure or I just want a second opinion, I’m calling that man. He’s sharp of mind. He’s willing to help. I’m using my resources, and he’s one of many. You know, I am involved in a few different boards, so I give my time to a board, but I want to get something out of that board too. So, I’m asking questions, and I’m paying attention, and I’m bringing to my team things that are appropriate. I’m willing to reach out for what I need, but I also know I have an obligation to give and to share, to teach the generation behind me.
Spencer: I’m going to ask you one last question for this week. Last week, we talked about your roles in leadership on the IBIE committee and the ABA board. And you know, just like you said, you give a lot, but you also are open to learning and receiving benefits from that. So, you know, you and I talked about up-and-comers, new people, young people coming into the industry. They come to IBIE, and they look up at the IBIE committee. They look at the boards of the associations that own IBIE. And those are the the titans, like I said, the titans of the industry. So as a titan of the industry, Trina, what advice would you give this next generation of the workforce, and of leadership, in terms of what they take from their mentors and their leaders and forming it into their own path? Especially as you gain that visibility on these on these boards and committees.
Bediako: Never stop asking questions. Anything that doesn’t — that it isn’t clear — get clarity. Learn all you can. Be bold enough to do something different. Take advantage of the resources around you. If you see someone that you respect, or think they’re doing well, ask them about their story. How did you get here? What journey did you take? You can’t be afraid to try to learn or to grow. There’s so much out there, but if you sit still in a corner, you won’t get it. You won’t get it. And sometimes you gotta get loud make sure they hear you.
Spencer: Yeah. And I just think that the industry in general is on the cusp of a kind of generational turnover. And the millennials now — you know, we used to worry about, ‘Oh my god, the millennials are coming’ — and now, the millennials are now like, ‘Oh God, the Gen Z are here. What are we gonna do?’ And so it’s changing when the millennials are now seen as old school, the future is upon us. And so, this is really important advice, yeah, coming from someone who spent her life in the industry, so I think that’s a great note to end on. Thank you again for your time and wisdom and insight. Trina, it was a joy.
Bediako: Thank you so much.
Learn more about this season here, and tune into Troubleshooting Innovation on Apple or Spotify.
PASTE TRANSCRIPT HERE
