Welcome to Season 17 of the Troubleshooting Innovation podcast. Spiros Assimacopoulos, president and CEO of The Good Bread Co., shares his journey through automation, expansions and more … all to share the time-honored tradition of artisan bread. Sponsored by WP Bakery Group USA.
In our fifth and final episode, Spiros reflects on how his entrepreneurial and growth experiences are shaping the future. And we might find out if — and how — he would have done it all differently.
Learn more about this season here, and tune into Troubleshooting Innovation on Apple or Spotify.
Joanie Spencer: Hi, Spiros. I can’t believe it’s our last week together. I have absolutely loved spending this month with you, and I’ve heard your story several times, but it seems like every time we talk, I learn something more. So I just want to say thank you again this whole month for sharing your journey with us and just being so honest about the good, the bad and — I’m not gonna say ugly — the good, the bad and the entrepreneurial. How’s that?
Spiros Assimacopoulos: Hey, that sounds good.
Spencer: Okay, so we’re gonna pick up where we left off last week, remembering everybody sort of getting used to your growth mindset and how it’s sort of becoming part of the culture of The Good Bread Company. This company has grown pretty fast so far. So, what would you say this means for the future? Like, are you gonna go just as fast, or are you thinking more slow and steady?
Assimacopoulos: What’s that?
Spencer: That’s what I thought you’d say.
Assimacopoulos: That’s no fun. That’s no fun for anybody. Um, yeah, I’m already making plans — two and a half, three years out — for changes I want to make to the plant. I think the changes, they’re going to continue to be fast and transformational in terms of our process and capacity, capability, quality, all of those things.
But as I’ve learned in the past, every leap to you know, kind of a different rung up the automation ladder brings different challenges, and oftentimes the stakes are higher. The benefits can be tremendous, but also the drawbacks can also be very painful, if some of those issues aren’t managed properly.
When you’re mixing two batches an hour and a machine goes down, everyone you know, goes for a water break or a snack, and you can get back, jump into it. When you’re when you’re doing 15 mixes an hour, it’s, it’s a lot more devastating when, when something goes down in the middle of the process.
So, it’s going to be, I think, a continued journey of the overall team evolving, continuing to bring on additional talent, and really understanding the ‘why’ that we’re automating, how we’re going to get there and what are all the little detail things that we need to manage to ensure success? But I will take a moment to point out that a lot of people on my team have been here now for since that time after COVID. And the amount of growth and individual ability in their command of what’s happening the plant is just extraordinary.
Spencer: It’s awesome. I believe that the five years from 2020, to 2025 it’s a very different scenario than, say, the five years from 2015, to 2020. Like, there was just so much change in the world, in business, in politics, in people, and how people interact with each other in technology, and how we use technology. Like, the changes were just so big. And I think everyone really grew a lot faster from 2020 to 2025, than any other five year time period. Would you agree with that?
Assimacopoulos: Yeah, I agree 100%. It really has been fascinating. And I think it’s difficult when things change so quickly, to t absorb them and be able to process what’s happening sometimes. In business, in life, we climb one mountain and there’s another ‘first and 10,’ and on to the next problem. But I think at a certain point we’ll all look back at this period and, you know, I think I’ve forgotten half of what happened already since COVID. It’s kind of a blur. But, you know when, when you bring it up time to time, we have different visitors, and I would say, within the last, year, the visitors come in, and they’re just astounded because they don’t recognize the plant from pre-COVID when they were here last.
Spencer: Wow, that’s cool.
Assimacopoulos: It’s almost like having a child that grows before your eyes. You don’t realize that one day they’re grown up. But if you don’t see them for six months, you’ve got, you know, so much change.
Spencer: That’s a really good analogy. Okay, so we just saw each other at IBIE a couple months ago. There were a lot of trends and innovation on display, whether it was in education or on the show floor or just even in the networking and talking to people. Was there anything at the show that impacted your mindset as far as how you want to grow or where you want to go from here?
Assimacopoulos: I would say not how I want to grow or where. It’s just what are the tools available to help us do that? And some of the organizations are really diving into AI, some interesting things. I think it’s still early, but I think sometime in the next 12 to 18 months, we’re going to find that AI is starting to really help us from a training perspective, preventative maintenance, predictability and understanding when machines fail, different things like that, all components of a successful, smooth running line.
Spencer: So I just sort of enhanced your thinking. And I guess I would say any attendee would say it kind of makes — attending IBIE — makes you smarter about doing your business.
Assimacopoulos: Yeah. Not only that, but I think since COVID, you know, it has changed our industry. I think more bakeries are streamlining, or forced to streamline, during and after COVID, and, you know, we’re all kind of now just baking for each other in kind of a limited partnership. So there’s, I think, a lot more interaction between bakers relying on each other a lot more, and that just makes us all stronger at the end of the day. So to me, every time I go back to IBIE, it seems like the community is somehow shrinking a little bit. Everybody you know, we all know each other now, and we have this really positive kind of collegial relationship working together.
Spencer: Oh my gosh, I could not agree more. In fact, as you know, we’re putting together this podcast and putting together our December issue, and so I’m reflecting a lot on the impacts of everything that happened this year, and I keep coming to that same conclusion that there is way more collaboration in the industry now than there has ever been, in my opinion.
I never thought about it being sort of a byproduct of COVID, but I think you’re onto something there. When everybody had to sort of rely on each other to get through it and like what’s happening, and especially like the situation that that you were in when you lost all your customers, but then the grocery stores couldn’t keep bread on the shelves, so you were able to step in and help. I think it really did change everyone’s mindset and how we view one another.
Assimacopoulos: Yeah, for the better. And you know, some of it is just, it’s just good business practice. But I think it was part of the industry in the world that we wanted to make everything and not rely on someone who you perceive as a competitor. And that really has changed.
Spencer: Yeah, that’s really good insight.
Assimacopoulos: It’s changed to the point where we will share technicians, we’ll share resources, I can pick up the phone to probably 10 different bakers and ask them a question, and they’d be more than happy to help me out. I think it’s just, it’s a huge plus for everybody. It’s going to move us all forward a lot quicker.
Spencer: And I think that it’s really needed this year, with all the challenges. I mean, we could spend an entire month just talking about the challenges of this year and all the crazy, weird stuff that’s happened. But honestly, I think if we hadn’t been through what we went through five years ago, it would have been harder to rely on one another to get through some of these crazy challenges that we’ve had.
Assimacopoulos: Yeah, I also think this is potentially reflective of the entire industry evolving where, in North America, we have this huge land mass, we have a huge logistics network. There’s a transition from, you know, neighborhood bakeries, which has been going on for decades now in the United States, but the neighborhood bakery is being replaced by the in-store bakery. And how do we as bakers, manufacturers efficiently supply the consumer? So I think it’s going to require an ever increasing degree of collaboration between everyone in the industry.
Spencer: Yeah, yeah. Okay, so listen, here’s kind of an ethereal question. If there hadn’t been a pandemic, how different do you think your journey would have been?
Assimacopoulos: That’s a great question. I don’t know if I’ve ever really put a lot of thought into that, but I’m really confident to say that as an entrepreneur, as an organization, we would be several steps behind where we are today. I mean, COVID was it was a horrible experience for everybody. There were some silver linings for our industry. And the bakery that we acquired in Minneapolis probably wouldn’t have been on the market if it weren’t for COVID. So yeah, I have to take the glass half full approach to all the benefits, but yeah, our growth probably would have been a little bit more muted and a little bit less interesting than the last four years have been.
Spencer: I think a lot of people — myself included — would have remained very risk averse if we hadn’t been through what we went through. it was just such a challenge in that you had to make these hard decisions, sometimes without even having the time or the opportunity to think about them. You had to just go on instinct. And I think you’re right, like, what a horrible experience. Would we want to go through that again? Absolutely not. But I do think that a lot of us were changed, maybe change for the better, but change for good.
Assimacopoulos: Yeah, I agree. And you know, you’re, you’re jogging my memory now of what those days were like, and some of the decisions and the pain in my stomach, wondering what’s going to happen to the business. you know, losing 80% of your business overnight. So, Yeah, I think, you know, being positive, it really showed us, as people and as business owners, what we’re capable of when, when we need to be tough and we need to be creative and have some courage.
Spencer: Okay, more reflection for you. I want to go back to that first episode when we were first getting to know you, and just sort of revisit the fact that this bakery was a spinoff of your dad’s distribution company. and so you have this interesting dual identity that you’re a first generation baker in a second generation family business. With that, how does that shape your view of the future of this business, in terms of it being a family business? Could there be a second generation of Assimacopoulos bakers and a third generation of the business?
Assimacopoulos: Yeah, well, I really hope so. And I’ll tell you, you know, one of the greatest joys of my life is being able to work with my dad and my brother for the last 30 years. And my partner, Mike, is not part of the family; he is part of the family, but not by blood. But what a blessing to get up and for all these years and see my dad, my brother. You know, there was a few altercations. We’ll get into that, maybe in another episode. But a lot more great times, and a lot of it’s fun, not only winning, but losing and working through those tough times together, so, if I’m fortunate enough to have that experience with my two children, or any of my nieces or nephews, of course, I would welcome that. And it would be a blessing. So we’ll see. The kids are still in college. They’re trying to figure out who they are and where they fit in, and what their personal goals are, and what’s going to drive them and get them up in the morning. So, we’ll know the next couple of years. Both of my children have worked here over the years. They’ve both been fired a couple of times. Nobody’s safe from following the rules. But yeah, they may come back and work in the summer.
Spencer: Awesome, awesome. And you have a son and a daughter, right?
Assimacopoulos: Yeah. My son, Alexios, is 19 and Apollonia, my daughter, is 21.
Spencer: Okay, and they both seem pretty, just entrepreneurial. I think they’ve kind of got that entrepreneurial gene from you. And it’ll be interesting over the next years, how they apply that spirit, if they want to create something of their own, or take the family company into all new areas. So, it’s going to be really fun to see what they do. I know they’re very smart and very interesting human beings.
Assimacopoulos: Yeah, they’re great young people. They’re not kids anymore, unfortunately. But yeah, I try to give them enough space to figure things out on their own. Obviously, of course, set a great example. Yeah, we’ll see where their journey takes them. And of course, Michelle, my wife, is, I have to thank her. From day one, she’s been my biggest supporter. And through good times, bad times, you know, I missed a lot of birthday parties. I was late to a lot of games. They really put up with a lot from me in the earlier years, trying to get things off the ground. So, I can’t thank her enough for the support she’s given, also the guidance to our children.
Spencer: Well, I will say I know Michelle, and she is tough as nails, and has a just a beautiful heart, and so there isn’t anybody who could have been more perfectly matched to you to start this company and be by your side and give you that support. Because she’s really strong and also an incredible person. So yes, no shock that the next generation is extremely talented and wonderful too. You have an amazing family, and I agree, can’t do it without the support of everyone.
Assimacopoulos: Yeah, thank you so much.
Spencer: Okay, so I’m sitting here thinking, you know, you started this company, you, like I said, you spun it off from what your father had. You know, maybe it’s possible that they create their own version of a spinoff in the future, but it kind of gets me thinking, you know, just the history of the baking industry. I mean, it was really built on legacy bakeries that started out as generational family businesses. Some are still in business as family-owned businesses. Some are not. In your opinion, and again, you have this very unique sort of, I don’t know if it’s accurate to say it’s a juxtaposition, but maybe. Do you think that there’s a future for family bakeries, or do you think that this craft will be just fine being carried on by passionate bakers who aren’t necessarily tied by blood?
Assimacopoulos: I don’t know if there’s a future — I mean, there can be for families — but I don’t think there is a future in this industry without truly passionate people. You know, everyone thinks that whatever they do in the world is special, and other people don’t understand it. Of course, I think that about baking. It requires a certain energy, a passion, that comes out in your products. And I think in certain organizations, when you don’t have that, you see it in the products. So, I think companies that are going to grow, continue to innovate and really bring in the next evolution of food and bread in this country, I think you’re always going to find someone who’s totally passionate and driven behind that. I don’t think it exists without that. I’m sure you can make a great, you know, brake pad company without someone who has a burning desire for brake pads. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe I’m wrong, but you know what I’m saying. So, when and if you can bring your family into that fold is just an interesting and incredible blessing that I would I would hope for everyone who is willing to go down that path.
Spencer: I love that. I love that. Okay, so again, calling back to the first episode, I asked you how you identified yourself in terms of baker, salesman, entrepreneur, businessman, we’ve had a lot of reflection since I first asked you that question. So, after all of these conversations over the past five weeks, has your view changed in how you would identify yourself? And then also, after this conversation, how does husband, father, brother, son, fit into how you see yourself?
Assimacopoulos: Yeah, well, it’s interesting. As we, as we move through the stages of life, we wear, just like as in a business, you have to wear different hats on different days at different times, such as our life. Sometimes when I get home, I’m not the CEO anymore. Michelle has that mantle sometimes in the house, and I have to follow her lead, right? So, like everything, I try to find balance, and I want to be great in all of those aspects of my life. I don’t know if I had to pick one. I don’t know. I would pick it would probably be father. I mean, father or husband. Ultimately, I would like to be known as someone who was a genuine and good leader and left things better than I found them.
Spencer: I don’t think you’re going to have a problem with that. I’m going to ask you one last question. Looking back on all of it, would you have done anything differently? And if so, does that impact what you think about the future?
Assimacopoulos: There’s always going to be tactical decisions. Maybe I should have purchased this piece of equipment before that one or things like that. But ultimately, the business has evolved incredibly over 15 years. I have evolved. The team has evolved. So, I think if you are in a healthy place and in a good place, yeah, I don’t think there’s any looking back. I’m grateful for the journey I had. It probably maybe a little bit unique or different to others in industry, but it’s been a lot of fun. I think one of the points I made earlier in one of the earlier podcasts, was learning when to ask for help and not being afraid to ask for help. You know, after that recording, I was reflecting a little bit, and we’re looking at, you know, some different departments in the organization that kind of need to be reimagined. I decided, well, yeah, I should probably ask for help. I should follow my own advice, right? So it’s like a sculpture that you never really finish. It can always be a little bit better. So I think I’m proud of what we’ve achieved as a team. And you know, if you asked me 15 years ago, if you know, 15 years from now, you could be on a podcast with Joanie, and you’ve got a couple of bakeries, and this that I would, I would take the deal on a heartbeat. I really would.
Spencer: Awesome. Well, I love ending our month together on those thoughts. This has been incredible. I feel like we really packed 15 years into five weeks. And you’ve just created something really special with a very unique perspective. And I am just so grateful, Spiros, for your time and again, just being so honest and authentic and transparent about what it takes to build a company like you have in The Good Bread company. So I just want to say thank you so much for spending this month with us.
Assimacopoulos: Thank you, Joanie. It’s been my honor and a pleasure to spend this time with you.
