Welcome to Season 12 of the Troubleshooting Innovation podcast. Joanie Spencer, editor-in-chief for Commercial Baking, is spending this season with Tony Martin, president of Martin’s Famous Pastry Shoppe. They’re exploring how this company has grown from a family-owned brand into a national icon. Sponsored by AMF Bakery Systems.

In the first episode, we dive into the history of the company, starting with Tony’s grandparents baking out of a one-car garage in the ’50s. You’ll also hear about Tony’s winding career path, from pilot to president, as the third generation of leadership in a four-generation company.

Learn more about this season here, and tune into Troubleshooting Innovation on Apple or Spotify.

Joanie Spencer: Hi Tony. Thank you so much for joining me this season.

Tony Martin: I’m so glad to be here.

Spencer: This is really exciting. I have to tell you, I love potato rolls. I’m just going to open with that. Potato bread is the best bread, I love it.

Martin: We’re so glad to hear that.

Spencer: I’m just thrilled. I’m absolutely thrilled to take our audience through the journey of how Martin’s started as this really small family bakery with a really special product, and now you’re not only nationally known, you are really kind of known around the world. You’re selling in a lot of countries, so this is very exciting to share with our listeners how you can start out small and become something really, really big.

So, let’s just dive in and start with a quick history of the company. It started with your grandparents in a one-car garage in the ’50s. How did this bakery go from that to a restaurant to truck routes and then commercial production?

Martin: Yeah, it’s an interesting story. Obviously, it’s my family’s story. My great-grandfather, one generation beyond my grandfather, was in the baking business. My grandfather married my grandmother and started working for him, and there were already three siblings in the business. They came to him and said, “Hey, the business isn’t big enough for all of us, so you can rent our bakery in the evening, and you can sell the products that you make, as long as it’s outside our territory.”

So we were in Chambersburg, and he sold in that market and a couple of surrounding towns. He had to go one town beyond where they were and he started that business back in the ’50s. When it grew just a little bit bigger than what they could handle, he actually turned his garage, like you said, into a bakery, which was behind his house. That started in the late ’50s and early ’60s, and it did really well.

The name was Martin’s Famous Pastry Shoppe, and they made dozens and dozens of different items in those days. They sold in markets probably 50 miles, 75 miles away from our home base. That’s kind of how it all started.

Then he went from there into a slightly larger bakery on Route 30 in Chambersburg and also opened up a restaurant, a small pastry shop, out front with the bakery in the back. It was somewhat vertically integrated when it came to making everything and selling it out front, and also keeping the markets.

From there, my dad started working for his father in the mid-’60s but soon left that business and went to work for his father-in-law, who had a potato chip business selling those potato chips in the local grocery stores. My father learned from that business how to sell retail through a wholesale distribution model. He took that knowledge and joined his father in the mid-’70s, they incorporated and started peddling the potato rolls to all of these different grocery stores that would take them.

The business was very small, so it was just a few to begin with, but it grew to the point where it went really well and they had to keep expanding and expanding and expanding.

So, pretty amazing story. When you’re a small business, you just do what it takes to get the product out the door, find good employees who help you get there, and it’s an overnight success, as they say. But there’s no such thing as overnight success. It’s hard work.

Spencer: Oh, that’s interesting to me, because I knew that there was this agreement that you wouldn’t sell within Chambersburg, but I didn’t realize that it was a family agreement.

So, the family history goes back even further, and then to know that your father worked for his father-in-law, this is a true family business in a way that navigated around what could have been a lot of drama. It sounds like it was very amicable and good business practice.

Martin: Yeah, and an interesting story, too, is there’s even a little bit of a twist here. My grandparents, on both sides of my family, went to the same markets and they stood side by side, so that’s how my parents met.

Spencer: That is awesome.

Martin: They had a love for music. My mom played the organ and my father liked to sing. They had this traveling and singing thing that they did for a little while together. So yeah, it’s all in the family.

Spencer: That takes friendly competition to a whole different level. So, like you said, this business could have gone in so many different directions. How did your family know that potato rolls were going to be the way to go, and how did the restaurant play into that?

Martin: That’s a great question. When my father and grandfather joined the businesses together, my grandfather basically ran the bakery but also the restaurant. At that point, they were probably close to having 300 different items they sold.

One time, my grandfather went on vacation, and my dad was looking at the books and figured out they were really only making money on nine different categories of items. So, he cut the entire product line.

He did one of those things where you cut out a bunch of your products and whatever was left over was basically the nine items we make today. We brought the rest of the stuff in, and they continued to sell that in the pastry shop and the markets, but we no longer produced it.

That was a big change for our business. My grandfather wasn’t necessarily on board with it, but it was the right thing to do, and that proved to be true as we were able to focus on just the potato rolls and start automating that process with new equipment.

We purchased a little more land around town, built another bakery and dedicated that bakery to just potato rolls. So, we made potato rolls and a couple of other different items that were not potato but were all basically around the shape of a long roll, a hot dog roll, a sub roll, that kind of thing.

Spencer: So, in large commercial bakeries now, we see SKU rationalization, and you’re right, it is such a hard decision. I know bakers put their hearts and their souls into what they make, whether they’re a small shop on the corner, a retail shop or a large operation producing at scale. So, it’s great to hear that that hard decision was a strategic one, and obviously, it’s one that’s paid off for your family and for your company.

Martin: No salesman ever likes to actually cut an item out that he’s selling, right? So, it’s a hard decision that the boss has to make sometimes that it’s right for the whole organization in order to be able to focus on that. So yeah, we did that in the late ’70s.

Spencer: Well, I opened the conversation with my love of potato bread, and so I’m grateful for that.

The next thing we’re going to talk about is you and kind of your path. But, I do want to tell you that my sister is three years older than me, and when she was in high school, her first job was at a retail bakery. It was Rosie’s, was the name of the bakery, and they made all different kinds of products. She came home from her first day with all these baked goods, and she was like, “This is the coolest thing about the job. Everything’s fresh, so at the end of the day, we just have to take everything home.” So, that was the first time that I experienced potato bread. From then on, I was always like, “Will you bring some potato bread home, please?”

That’s always stuck with me. That was my first experience; I didn’t know bread could taste that good. So, I have a personal memory, and my emotions tied to it, so I’ll probably bring that up later in some of our conversations, but I want to get back to you. I want to hear about, in this family business, what did your path look like? How old were you when you first started working in the bakery? And when did you know, “This is what I’m going to do?”

Martin: Great question. So, when you’re in a family business, you’re kind of always at work. Your dad brings work home, mentally and physically sometimes, and frankly, it wasn’t many years ago that there weren’t quite as many rules around child labor and things like that. So, we were more involved with going to work, maybe on a Saturday or perhaps on an evening after school. We would get involved.

I would go in and help clean things like the bread trays or organize things. That was at 10 years old. We were riding in delivery vans. He would have to make a special delivery from our place, maybe an hour or two away, and so we would go along.

We had four siblings in the family, so I’m sure my mom needed a break, and so I went with him. We had a good time. That’s how you get to know your parents, and you learn to appreciate what you don’t realize at the time: How hard they work. But you look back and you think, “That’s pretty cool.” I had an opportunity to spend a lot of time with my dad.

Early on, he learned to fly as well, so I would fly along with him to different places where we would visit, maybe our customers, our business partners and perhaps a vendor or two in a flour mill or something like that. So, I was able to really participate, because where I saw my career going actually was on the flying side. I wanted to be an airline pilot. I got my license shortly after I was 16. I then went to a school that had an aviation program, and I wanted to play soccer as well, so I tried to join those two things together. So, I ended up going to Ohio State and got my aviation degree. I left there, was able to get a job with American Eagle as a commercial airline pilot.

In the meantime, I got married and we moved away. The thought of coming back to work at Martin’s was really never something that I was expected to do. We really never talked about it as a family. One of the suggestions I would make for family businesses is not to put too much pressure on your family members, let it kind of germinate on its own. I’ve read books both ways. I’ve read them where, you know, you shouldn’t let them get away, because they may not come back. Other ones, you know, don’t pressure them, or they will leave. And so, I was one of those that it was good there wasn’t a lot of pressure.

So, when I left, I decided that I wanted to start a career over there. I got married and we wanted to start a family at some point as well. We thought, “Well, being away from family is really hard when you’re going to start a family.” So, I actually applied for a job back at Martin’s. I sent it to my grandfather as, “Hey, maybe you guys need a pilot.” I was a trained pilot, so I came back and helped them fly back and forth, and we were making trips.

We’re kind of in a rural area, so commercial traffic where we are is a little bit tougher to just jump on an airplane and, you know, go to Chicago or go to different places. So, we use our own aircraft to do that. I volunteered to be their pilot, and so I did that for a while. And in the process of doing that, my father basically didn’t have any strategy. We didn’t have a lot of structure in planning for the next generation. So, I was kind of left to figure out what I needed to do, or what I wanted to do. And that was before the age of a lot of computerization, and we really needed systems in place to better manage our business and know where we were selling it, how much we were selling it for, and whether we were making money in these markets, things like that.

So that’s actually what I did. That was what I did for the first 10 years of my work here. My job was to research and try to automate our systems, from our order to cash systems to our PLC systems in our bakery and try to tie these all together with different databases, come up with data warehouses and all those kinds of things. So not having that as my background in college, I kind of had to learn everything on the fly. That was how I got involved with the business. It was really how I learned about the business and how it actually functions. And by doing that, you really, really get at a very core level of your business and know what is working and what is not working.

Spencer: You always hear those stories of, “I remember taking naps on the sacks of flour, and I was walking through the bakery when I was six years old.” And you can’t really do that anymore, so I always love hearing that nostalgia, but I’m used to hearing, “I got my start in the bakery by driving the route trucks.” You’re the first person who was the company pilot. That is awesome. That is a cool story.

And I do like that you had to be self-taught, teaching yourself the business side early on. And it sounds like you’re somewhat of an early adopter, that you were looking into system integration and automation to streamline the business and be more cost-effective very early on. So that’s very interesting as well.

Martin: Yeah, you know, through the business growth years … we look back at old pictures where, basically in the bakery you dump the dough into a dough trough, and you dump that dough trough onto a big table, and you had, I’ll say, an army of people, cutting that dough into chunks, putting it in round balls and making dough balls out of those. Sometimes it was all manual, then later on, it was slightly automated.

Now, you look at that same process and you realize you have the same amount of people you did back then, but you’re making 100 times more product because of the automation. We would not be in business today, and we know that, without investing and trying to figure out how to create a product that is high quality and also less labor intensive. One, because there’s not that much labor available. We’ve talked about that in our industry, but it’s also tough for work, too. I mean, it was a lot of physical labor. Now it’s mostly monitoring a machine, setting up and making sure that the machine’s doing what it’s supposed to do.

Spencer: That leads me to my next question. So, I know you’ve got the fourth generation working. You’re the third generation, and I kind of like what you said about pursuing your own path and then coming back by your own choice and diving into the business. How do you balance family legacy with being an early adopter and having innovative ideas? Whether it’s in product development, how you distribute, the culture or with machines and automation. We’re going to dive into those specifically as we go along this season. But for now, how do you prioritize that balance between family legacy and innovation as a family member and an executive?

Martin: It’s one of the things that, when you are young, you have all the answers. Then you realize, the more responsibility you get, the more you realize you may not have all those answers. And you need people around you who have done it before. And you try to balance, “Hey, I have an idea,” with “Hey, we tried that one time and it didn’t work,” with “Yes, it didn’t work last time, but this time, we think it might.”

Many companies go through this, you try something, and maybe you spend a lot of time, effort and money around it, and it fails. So, the innovation part, you get kind of shut down. I learned early on that I couldn’t have a great idea and say, “Let’s go do this,” because I would get pushback right away. So, I started saying, “How could I try it? How could I try to make something a micro piece of what we’re doing and could we attempt this little segment? Could we do a trial?”

I started getting a lot more buy-in with that and that proved whether it was a good idea or not. Then if it was innovative and it worked, yeah, we would move that direction, or we would pull back, and we would try something else. I guess the common terminology now is “You shoot bullets before you shoot the cannonball,” and so you try something first in an innovative way.

We also look at different products that we strategize with. We were in the pastry business. We made lots of items. We went scaled down to just a few SKUs, and then we started adding SKUs back as we see, perhaps there’s a customer demand for or we think we can make something that’s of high quality. We would not be in business if it weren’t for our quality. We aren’t the biggest. We’re not going to be able to do it the cheapest. We’re not going to do it necessarily, perhaps better than anybody else. Our secret is basically: Our ingredients are really good quality, so they’re very high-quality items that we put into our product. That makes it kind of special.

Spencer: Okay, that’s really interesting. Every bakery is known for its own thing, and so kind of what you said, if you’re not the cheapest or you’re not fastest – everybody has to be known for one thing, and automation and technology and being innovative can feed any of those. So, it’s really about what you want to be known for and how you want to get there that’s going to drive you in the direction that your company needs to go, right?

Martin: Many years ago, I had somebody a lot bigger than us, tell me, “Hey, we all drive trucks. We all have the same type of equipment, but it’s how you use it, and what quality you end up with. That is what your differentiator is.”

So, we’ve strived to make sure that our quality is number one, which helps us, because we have fewer SKUs to worry about. When you have dozens and dozens of SKUs, it’s really hard to manage, say, the forest for the trees. We have our own challenges because we don’t have a big SKU count, but we’re able to manage that in a different way than other bakers can do.

Spencer: Yeah, and I think that’s an area that we’re going to dive into in later episodes this month. I love your mindset.

There’s something else that I’m curious about as a family business, and that is the dynamic between you and your dad. Because while you’re president, he is still involved with the business as board chair. So can you just kind of share, I mean, you got into it a little bit with ‘shooting bullets before cannons’, which I love. But, what are the benefits and challenges that come with earning a position of leadership and a company where your family is all around? There are benefits to being an executive with your father, but there are also a lot of challenges, I can only imagine. I would not get along with my father in an executive position – I know that to be true. I’d love to just hear your perspective on that.

Martin: It’s obviously something that we work through as a business. Having him here and his wisdom from his past years of experience is enormously important, and we really do value that. Yes, he’s not as involved as much as he used to be. He doesn’t come in quite as much as he used to come in. So, he gets a little bit behind on things that are changing, but he’s kind of our rudder if you want to say it that way, and he’s in the background. He’s just making sure that we as a family are learning from our mistakes, evaluating where we are and making sure we know where we want to be – where we want to go.

So, yeah, we don’t always agree. No family always agrees. I have three other siblings in the business. I’m the oldest. I suppose got here earlier, so I took the responsibility on and I, once in a while, will gleefully say, “Hey, if you guys want to take the presidency, that would be fine. It would be a whole lot less stress on me and our family.” But at this point, they have said, “Hey, no, we love where you are, and we work really well as a family.”

We have good family harmony, and that’s important, that we work well together, and we do, we challenge one another. We have a few type-A personalities around, so we have to apologize once in a while when we get excited. But I don’t think it would work any other way. If we were just kind of laid back and let it happen, I don’t know that we would be where we are.

Spencer: I heard a story from another multi-generation family bakery that ate dinner together frequently, and they had a rule, “We don’t talk about business at the dinner table. When we’re at the dinner table, it’s family, not business.” And I thought that was a great rule to have.

How do you see the business impacting the Martins as a family, like the family dynamic? And vice versa. How does the Martin family dynamic impact the business?

Martin: Our family is very close. We spend a lot of time together in non-business settings. My parents have a small swimming pool, so we will often get together on a Sunday evening as a family and break bread together, have a good time, have some pizza or whatever and let the kids go swimming and those kinds of things.

We occasionally talk business, but we don’t stress about it when we’re together. The business is big enough that we can kind of have our own areas of expertise. And we work well separately and then we come back together. Our management team actually gets together every Friday over a meal and we have a meeting after that. So, we kind of give each other an update on where we are. Half of that group is family and half of it’s not family.

From that perspective, we don’t have any dynamics where it’s a problem. We don’t really avoid problems and challenges, but, again, my dad and my mom are still very much involved with family dynamics. We’re very much in charge of the business and make all the decisions, but we know we can use him as a sounding board. Just works well for us.

Spencer: Really, the Martins have that reputation. Anybody could go look at your website and look through the history, or some of those blog posts and see that family – just your family, how you operate, your values and how you treat each other – is kind of threaded throughout the business. You can see that in several different aspects of the business. How do you think those dynamics have sort of shaped you, not only as a business leader but also as a baker?

Martin: We like to see ourselves as not only a family business but as a business family. We think of business first, as far as here at work, and then we think of family separately. The dynamics of leadership here, you know, you have good people around you, you hire the right people and they help challenge you.

When I was not in senior management, I would send emails and things like that that were not necessarily with the right tone. They were kind of spicy. And I had a challenger here, and he goes, “Hey, listen, I’m not sure I’d send that email like that.” He challenged me back, and I took that to heart, and I learned that it’s better to have friends, business acquaintances and senior managers all together.

What I mean by that is you trust them, you respect them and you want them to challenge you. That’s how you become a better leader. You learn from your mistakes. But if you’re just going to go out that on your own and do it your own way, you know, God bless you. I hope it works for you, but if you don’t have somebody to challenge you, I don’t know how you will get better.

Spencer: Yeah, that’s a really good point. So, then I want to take it just a little bit of a step further and look at it as an even bigger picture.

As a B2B journalist, I’ve never really covered an industry outside of the baking industry, so I don’t know this for sure, but it feels like family businesses and generational businesses are more prevalent here than in other industries.

How do you feel like being part of a family business has impacted your view of the industry, especially as you went into aviation and then came back to the baking industry? How has your role in this business impacted how you view the industry? And then also, specifically as a board member for the American Bakers Association, how is your view impacting how you operate and how you see the industry?

Martin: We’ve always been, and kind of try to act, in a small business role where we don’t really feel necessarily that we have much impact on the industry per se. We have our little niche, you know, we make rolls, and we try to be a mushroom and try to grow in the shadows. Let’s let our product speak for itself, and that’s how we live.

As far as industry goes, my father was on the ABA board prior to me and I saw him participate some, but not in a big way. I felt like, especially during some of the discussions of the Checkoff Program and ways of trying to see what’s happening in the industry, and particularly, I’ll call it fad diets, and how they impacted our industry in general, trying to figure out, “How is our industry playing defense? Do we need to play offense?”

It’s still kind of open to me where the future lies in that area because I feel like we still don’t have a good platform to play offense, per se. GFF (Grain Foods Foundation) is really helping in that area, to help tell the story of the nutritional benefits of our products. And of course, you mentioned our blog and our website, and we’re trying to push it. There are a couple of other companies, I think we’re all trying to push this water balloon or this noodle upstream. We’re trying to figure out how to get the message out that it really is not only a nutritious item, but it’s very cost-effective, it can be comforting and all that wrapped up in one word, “Eat” for people, but I think trying to become a better and bigger part of that.

Now, as far as family businesses go, it is really interesting. I didn’t realize there were so many family businesses in the baking industry when I started. We know that very large companies have grown through acquisition and typically they’re acquiring family businesses. So, there are fewer today than there were in the past. But it’s exciting to see actually, some new bakeries, you know, the startups, and they’re doing well, and so that’s exciting to see new entrants into the category. It’s expanding where we are, as far as what products we’re producing.

So, I think the future looks good, and I love the fact that ABA is taking the role of helping bring that group together, coalescing us and then helping us to tell our story to legislators, where they can have a lot of benefits and perhaps educate the legislators on what we provide to the general public.

Spencer: Yeah, for sure. And you know, I’ve participated in some of those activities, and it really is exciting to witness and take part in those efforts that ABA is doing, and seeing those legislators say, “Oh, I didn’t even think about that.” And kind of seeing that light bulb go off, that’s really something special.

Okay, I want to get a little bit introspective. We talked about your view of the future. Let’s look at your past again and look back on your childhood and your career journey. I’ve read a blog post from Emily, and I believe she’s your daughter, right?

Martin: She is, yes.

Spencer: I really enjoyed reading her perspective of what it’s like growing up as a fourth generation in this business. When you look back on your experience and then see her experience, what are some of the similarities and differences in how you grew up in the business, and how she’s growing up in the business? And do you think that the brand notoriety is impacting that?

Martin: I would say there’s a difference, and yet there’s a similarity.

When I was young, my siblings and I were never expected to work in the bakery, but we needed to earn money like any other kid in the summertime, so we would. From the time that we were in late high school into college age, we worked in the bakery through the summer times. And you mentioned running routes and I did run routes. My brother, for a summer, moved to Boston and he ran a route up there for a couple of months because we were in need. So, we could be tapped to do something.

Well, fast forward to the next generation. We wanted to be more intentional. We actually looked at some other family businesses and what they had done, they were in the fifth-generation business, trying to figure out what worked for them and what didn’t work. So, we actually wrote a family constitution. We have a family training program. We have a family guide that we now meet twice a year as a family to talk to the fourth generation. We actually have our meeting this coming Friday. We’ll sit down and we’ll give them an overview of the business and how we’re doing, almost like a stockholders report from a family member’s perspective.

One of the things that they’ll see in there is the expectations of a family member. To own stock in this business, we want you to understand what people do to make this business what it is. So, there’s a requirement. You have to work nine weeks in the bakery for at least one summer. You have to work in a myriad of different organizations, whether it’s HR, sales, purchasing or whatever, you have to work so many weeks in each one of those areas in order to qualify to vote your stock someday in the future.

We made that very intentional so they see that perspective. They may or may not like it but now it’s required, so it’s interesting to hear their perspectives. They definitely appreciate it once they leave and actually start their own career. Like many companies, we have asked them to work at least two years at another company in another career path, so that they’re not given a job back here at Martin’s, but they will have earned the respect of others because they’ve gone out and done it on their own.

My siblings and I have all worked somewhere else first and then come back to the business, found our niche and have grown the business in those areas. Now, the business is bigger, so it’ll be a little bit of a longer road for them, but they’ll be expected to come back if they want to, start at an opening position and work their way up through the process.

But yeah, Emily has a lot of perspectives because she did those summer internships. Now one of the things we’ve added here just recently – which is kind of fun because we are working at some international shows now – is if they want to go somewhere in Europe, we will take them on a trip. We’re going to the Paris food show coming up here this fall. Two of my kids are coming along, and we’ll do the stand routine for a couple of days, then we’ll get to tour the city for a little bit and then we’ll come back home. So it’s a way for them to get really involved.

Spencer: Working a trade show booth? That is some good training. That is awesome.

Martin: Absolutely. My son was 19 this year and kind of shy. It was awesome to see him coming out of his shell and talking about our products and our processes to prospective customers in London. It was really cool as a father to step back and observe.

Spencer: That’s amazing. Okay, I’m going to ask you one last question for this episode. Another thing I found when doing my homework on your company, is that Martin’s is sort of touted as living the American dream, and I think this episode really sums that up. This is really, truly what the American dream is about. So, how has the longevity of family ownership and direct involvement in the workforce been part of that dream? How do you see your role in creating the American dream? That’s something truly to be proud of. How do you see that legacy continuing?

Martin: Well, obviously, we’ve been enormously blessed as a family. Yes, it’s hard work, but there’s a lot of folks who have done a lot of hard work, and we’ve been blessed.

My grandparents started in the post-Depression era with not much and then worked hard into that next segment and so forth. I see us being able to continue that dream of rags to riches. It’s the American dream. We’re stewards of this business, as we see it. It’s an entity of itself. We’re a very religious family. We believe that God has helped us through this process, and we kind of give Him all the glory through the process. It’s not us. We’re not geniuses. We just work really hard, and we try to keep what’s first, first.

Spencer: You know, it’s funny that you sort of qualified it with the hard work, and it gave me this thought that people sometimes tend to forget that the American dream isn’t just about the fruits, it’s about the labor. There’s no American dream without putting in the work. And that’s really what the American dream is. It’s putting in the work and seeing it become fruitful.

Martin: It’s having the opportunity to work and taking that opportunity every day and just basically doing the repeat. Like I said before, there’s no such thing as an overnight success. It takes a long time. We live in a great country and have the freedom to explore whatever gift we want to try to give to society, and hopefully, society likes it and continues the growth process. So, we know that we don’t exist if customers aren’t excited about our product, and we call our customers who are so excited ‘raving fans.’ We’re so blessed by getting hundreds of emails every week asking, “Why can’t we get your product? We love your product. Could we have a coupon or two?” It’s from all around the country and now the world. It’s just been an awesome experience.

Spencer: Amazing. Well, I think that is a great note for us to end on for this episode, Tony. Thank you so much for walking us through how Martin’s went from a one-car garage in the ’50s to the brand you are today.

Next week, we’re going to dive deeply into product innovation for this niche item that you have in a staple category. So, I’m excited about that, but this entire season is going to be amazing. We are going to talk about operational considerations that come with the growth that you’ve experienced. We are going to talk about how you build a corporate culture through several generations. We’re going to close out by looking at some really cool, modern marketing strategies that Martin’s has developed.

So I’m thankful for this time with you, and I am just truly excited to spend the next few weeks with you.

Martin: Joanie, it’s been a blast for me, too, and it’s exciting to see where this industry is going.